85 replies to this topic

[Dion]

Just a question that I think should be answered. Why does Roxas have the Oblivion and Oathkeeper when he dual wields? The Oathkeepers obviously has a strong connection to Sora, what with Kairi and all. But why the Oblivion? Simply because its a stronger Keyblade in the same tier as Oathkeeper? Any speculations? Theories?

[Crimson Jazz]

The Oblivion represents Sora's link to/memories of Riku.

Edited by Crimson Jazz, 19 July 2011 - 10:36 PM.

[Rubicante]

Just a question that I think should be answered. Why does Roxas have the Oblivion and Oathkeeper when he dual wields? The Oathkeepers obviously has a strong connection to Sora, what with Kairi and all. But why the Oblivion? Simply because its a stronger Keyblade in the same tier as Oathkeeper? Any speculations? Theories?

Thought about this one quite a bit. My explanation involves Xion though. What I figure is he got the Oathkeeper from Sora and the Oblivion from Xion's memories of when Sora obtained it. When Roxas absorbed Xion's power he was able to obtain the rest of Sora's memories that were sleeping inside of him allowing him access to it. Also I can see it being a bit of a symbol of the bonds between Sora, Riku, and Kairi and the bonds between Roxas Axel and Xion. the Oblivion being a keyblade representing Riku's darkness can easily be related to Axel and the Oathkeeper to Kairi and Xion respectively.

[Secret Igshar]

I have several ideas. Oathkeeper has always been related to Kairi. Because Roxas is a part of Sora and Sora is (for some unknown reason; likely related to the alternative... *shudders at Selphie*) head-over-heels in love with Kairi. Therefore, Roxas is connected to the Oathkeeper.

Oblivion is theorized to have a connection to Riku in the same vein as the Oathkeeper ties to Kairi. People also say that the Oblivion is related to Xion, thus it's given to Roxas.


Personally, I think that the specific Keyblades he wields are unimportant and do not have a deeper meaning behind them. Roxas' whole theme is a duality between light and darkness, because he rides that line in-between, mostly due to The duality between light and darkness, white and black, is seen clearly in his clothing in KH2 and also in the two weapons he wields when he dual-wields. I think that the design choice of Oath/Obli in the Deep Dive video was based on this duality rather than the significance behind the two weapons and their connection with Sora. That design choice needed to carry over into Days in order to maintain continuity.


That's my two cents on the matter.

[Dion]

The Oblivion represents Sora's link to/memories of Riku.

The Oblivion is by no means canonically or symbolically tied to Riku.

Thought about this one quite a bit. My explanation involves Xion though. What I figure is he got the Oathkeeper from Sora and the Oblivion from Xion's memories of when Sora obtained it. When Roxas absorbed Xion's power he was able to obtain the rest of Sora's memories that were sleeping inside of him allowing him access to it. Also I can see it being a bit of a symbol of the bonds between Sora, Riku, and Kairi and the bonds between Roxas Axel and Xion. the Oblivion being a keyblade representing Riku's darkness can easily be related to Axel and the Oathkeeper to Kairi and Xion respectively.

Again, what I said to CJ. I see no way by which it can be connected to Riku's Darkness. Sora's memories are all dead at the point of the events of the game. Surely, Xion does not have ALL of Sora's memories within her. If she did, she might have been able to wield the Keyblade more effectively.

I have several ideas. Oathkeeper has always been related to Kairi. Because Roxas is a part of Sora and Sora is (for some unknown reason; likely related to the alternative... *shudders at Selphie*) head-over-heels in love with Kairi. Therefore, Roxas is connected to the Oathkeeper.

Yeah, this much I figured.

Oblivion is theorized to have a connection to Riku in the same vein as the Oathkeeper ties to Kairi. People also say that the Oblivion is related to Xion, thus it's given to Roxas.

Theorized, yes. :/ I don't think it represents Riku much at all. Now the fact that he uses it to attack Roxas in the end of Days... Well, I guess that creates a slight tie to the Darkness theory. But Roxas had the Oblivion before Riku used it at all. As far as I remember, Oblivion has no ties with Riku in any other KH game.

Personally, I think that the specific Keyblades he wields are unimportant and do not have a deeper meaning behind them. Roxas' whole theme is a duality between light and darkness, because he rides that line in-between, mostly due to The duality between light and darkness, white and black, is seen clearly in his clothing in KH2 and also in the two weapons he wields when he dual-wields. I think that the design choice of Oath/Obli in the Deep Dive video was based on this duality rather than the significance behind the two weapons and their connection with Sora. That design choice needed to carry over into Days in order to maintain continuity.

I actually was leaning towards this alternative. I just wanted to see others' opinions about it. :I

[Secret Igshar]

In KH1 you get the Oblivion immediately following the battle with Dark Riku in Hallow Bastion. That is what sparked the initial [strike]faggotry[/strike] line of reasoning that lead to ZOMG OBLIVION IS RIKU BECAUSE OATHKEEPER IS KAIRI.

I never bought that hogwash and I still do not.

[Crimson Jazz]

>_>

Nomura confirmed in a Famistu interview that the Oblivion is symbolic of Riku.

Famitsu Interview; Nomura: "The Keyblades the boy who knows Sora is holding are the Oathkeeper and Oblivion from the first game. The precious "Oathkeeper", which Sora received from Kairi. The jet-black Keyblade, symbolic of Riku. / The Oblivion, at first, was called Riku's Keyblade. The boy who has the Keyblades from Riku (darkness) and Kairi (light)......Who is he!?"

[Rubicante]

[FONT="Verdana"][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]

Again, what I said to CJ. I see no way by which it can be connected to Riku's Darkness. Sora's memories are all dead at the point of the events of the game. Surely, Xion does not have ALL of Sora's memories within her. If she did, she might have been able to wield the Keyblade more effectively.

it is actually if you go and read Nomura's director reports >>; but no I wasn't saying that Xion had ALL of his memories but rather she had the ones needed to make that connection to the keyblade.

[Dion]

it is actually if you go and read Nomura's director reports >>; but no I wasn't saying that Xion had ALL of his memories but rather she had the ones needed to make that connection to the keyblade.

>_>

Nomura confirmed in a Famistu interview that the Oblivion is symbolic of Riku.

Famitsu Interview; Nomura: "The Keyblades the boy who knows Sora is holding are the Oathkeeper and Oblivion from the first game. The precious "Oathkeeper", which Sora received from Kairi. The jet-black Keyblade, symbolic of Riku. / The Oblivion, at first, was called Riku's Keyblade. The boy who has the Keyblades from Riku (darkness) and Kairi (light)......Who is he!?"

What is this I don't even.

I suppose it does indeed signify Sora's connection to Riku.

I still think Nomura makes shit up as he goes. KH3D is unnecessary and the whole "Keyblade Master" shit was implemented to milk the series and make another entry

[Secret Igshar]

it is actually if you go and read Nomura's director reports >>; but no I wasn't saying that Xion had ALL of his memories but rather she had the ones needed to make that connection to the keyblade.

If we go the Riku route and the Hallow Bastion memories route, it is all backed up by the fact that Xion's initial memories from Sora are based on the sample Xemnas collected from Sora in Hallow Bastion in final mix. So, yeah. Adding some substantiation to this.

I still stand by my initial statement and opinion that the keyblades were initially chosen to be wielded by Roxas in Deep Dive because of the duality of the colors rather than the connections to the characters.

[Rubicante]

If we go the Riku route and the Hallow Bastion memories route, it is all backed up by the fact that Xion's initial memories from Sora are based on the sample Xemnas collected from Sora in Hallow Bastion in final mix. So, yeah. Adding some substantiation to this.

I still stand by my initial statement and opinion that the keyblades were initially chosen to be wielded by Roxas in Deep Dive because of the duality of the colors rather than the connections to the characters.

I actually think it could be a mixture of both. I agree that Roxas is a complete example of duality and that the keyblades given to him represent that but I also think that they represent the bonds between his two closest friends. Though I may be reading too much into it.

[Secret Igshar]

I think the meaning of the SRK bond was attached to the two keyblades in Roxas' possession AFTER the creation of the Deep Dive video. I stand by my and Dion's thoughts about Nomura making this up as he goes. I mean, seriously. The storyline is so convoluted at this point that nothing makes sense anymore. There are so many theories for what is and is not true because the games don't make ANYTHING clear enough. A game creator should not be required to hold interviews to explain things from his games. I do NOT count any outside material as canon to the games, because it's just shit Nomura makes up to answer the questions posed by his games that he left unanswered at the time specifically to give himself more time to dream up an answer.

Yeah, I went there. Any meaning related to Riku on the Oblivion was added after the fact to justify giving Roxas a black keyblade to stand opposite the white Oathkeeper.

[Dion]

I think the meaning of the SRK bond was attached to the two keyblades in Roxas' possession AFTER the creation of the Deep Dive video. I stand by my and Dion's thoughts about Nomura making this up as he goes. I mean, seriously. The storyline is so convoluted at this point that nothing makes sense anymore. There are so many theories for what is and is not true because the games don't make ANYTHING clear enough. A game creator should not be required to hold interviews to explain things from his games. I do NOT count any outside material as canon to the games, because it's just shit Nomura makes up to answer the questions posed by his games that he left unanswered at the time specifically to give himself more time to dream up an answer.

Yeah, I went there. Any meaning related to Riku on the Oblivion was added after the fact to justify giving Roxas a black keyblade to stand opposite the white Oathkeeper.

^ This e 13455645934095

Nomura himself stated that the complexity in KH has risen to a whole new level. He said that 3Ds will be hard to understand for even the most devoted KH fans. :I

Not to mention, the whole Namine being born when Kairi's shell was right infront of us all of KH1 affair; see also: Roxas having Ventus' heart when Ventus' heart has already merged with Sora's [this would imply Sora's heart being split in two, more than likely breaking apart his Chain of Memories and rendering him a useless shell]. Yeah. I called BS on KH when KH2 was released.

[Rubicante]

I think the meaning of the SRK bond was attached to the two keyblades in Roxas' possession AFTER the creation of the Deep Dive video. I stand by my and Dion's thoughts about Nomura making this up as he goes. I mean, seriously. The storyline is so convoluted at this point that nothing makes sense anymore. There are so many theories for what is and is not true because the games don't make ANYTHING clear enough. A game creator should not be required to hold interviews to explain things from his games. I do NOT count any outside material as canon to the games, because it's just shit Nomura makes up to answer the questions posed by his games that he left unanswered at the time specifically to give himself more time to dream up an answer.

Yeah, I went there. Any meaning related to Riku on the Oblivion was added after the fact to justify giving Roxas a black keyblade to stand opposite the white Oathkeeper.

Alright Iggy *cracks his knuckles* I'll bite. Not to sound too rude but that's kinda what 90% of game developers do. I mean very few people plan an entire series and all of its twists and turns at the starting gate. One of the most interesting things about the series is how much breathing room Nomura always seems to be able to leave himself while still cracking out a decent story. It's the stupid fan people who have to take it to a whole nother level because either they are too impatient to wait for an answer or get tired of hearing theories that make him have to give an interview.

Also to Dion *because again I'm lazy* Roxas was labeled long ago as being a part of sora and/or half of him and his power. It makes sense he would have half of Sora/Ven wouldn't it?

[Secret Igshar]

Nomura himself stated that the complexity in KH has risen to a whole new level. He said that 3Ds will be hard to understand for even the most devoted KH fans. :I

Just gonna throw this out there.

If Nomura did in fact say this, it proves without a doubt that he makes shit up as he goes. If he had this series planned before he began working on it (I understand that they didn't realize it would be a series when working on KH1, but that is NOT an excuse for never making a plan since then) then the level of complexity would not be increasing. It would be steady, and every game would make sense. We would understand why certain games exist. Things would fit into a nice, neat timeline, because they were all planned to have happened before any of the series was developed *beyond the first game*. This is not the case. He just threw caution to the wind and started making up new shit every time he made a new game just so that his games did not become stale by reusing the same enemies and plot mechanics and whatnot.

Because the story is convoluted and confusing to the point that even the most devoted fans would be confused by 3D, we can say without a doubt that Nomura is flying by the seat of his pants, not caring at all about making a coherent story because he KNOWS his fans will eat this shit up time after time. :|

Alright Iggy *cracks his knuckles* I'll bite. Not to sound too rude but that's kinda what 90% of game developers do. I mean very few people plan an entire series and all of its twists and turns at the starting gate. One of the most interesting things about the series is how much breathing room Nomura always seems to be able to leave himself while still cracking out a decent story. It's the stupid fan people who have to take it to a whole nother level because either they are too impatient to wait for an answer or get tired of hearing theories that make him have to give an interview.

It is still not an excuse for leaving such glaring plot holes in his games which require outside, non-canon information to fill. The games from KH1 up and through 2 are not complete. There is a lot of missing information that you will NEVER KNOW if you do not sift through Nomura's myriad interviews. That is the mark of a poor game developer. There are a LOT of questions which remain unanswered and just make NO GODDAMNED SENSE without intense research and, again, listening to the non-canon bullshit Nomura spits at the interviewers.

Again, by non-canon, I mean it does NOT exist anywhere within the games. Anything revealed by Nomura outside of the games is not canon. Without this information, the storyline is flimsy, weak, and is really not as good as everyone wants to believe it is.

[Axel Ryman]

Again, by non-canon, I mean it does NOT exist anywhere within the games. Anything revealed by Nomura outside of the games is not canon. Without this information, the storyline is flimsy, weak, and is really not as good as everyone wants to believe it is.

Yet you receive Oblivion in KH2 when you meet up with Riku.

[Dion]

Alright Iggy *cracks his knuckles* I'll bite. Not to sound too rude but that's kinda what 90% of game developers do. I mean very few people plan an entire series and all of its twists and turns at the starting gate. One of the most interesting things about the series is how much breathing room Nomura always seems to be able to leave himself while still cracking out a decent story. It's the stupid fan people who have to take it to a whole nother level because either they are too impatient to wait for an answer or get tired of hearing theories that make him have to give an interview.

This I can agree with. But making things so complex that the series makes no sense should not be something ANY fan should defend.

Also to Dion *because again I'm lazy* Roxas was labeled long ago as being a part of sora and/or half of him and his power. It makes sense he would have half of Sora/Ven wouldn't it?

A part of Sora, yes. But as his Nobody, he only should possess Sora's shell. He has a heart, too, though. Ventus' heart. Ventus' heart sought shelter within Sora's heart because it was too weak to stay on its own. Naturally, that heart merged with Sora's to sustain health and continue existing, since Ven's heart had no darkness of its own. Back to my original point of it not being able to part from Sora unless Sora's heart split to two. Now, this raises another question. If infact, Ventus' heart does reside within Roxas, how does it subside within Roxas without shattering or fading away completely? Or how about another one; surely, Ventus' heart's Chain of Memories was intact. Why is Roxas NOT Ventus himself, then?

[Secret Igshar]

Yet you receive Oblivion in KH2 when you meet up with Riku.

You get the Oathkeeper by unlocking a gate in Twilight Town in KH2.

Kairi makes the keychain for Oathkeeper in KH1 and hands it to Sora. KH1 and KH2 just happen to end up giving you the Oblivion after you meet Riku. I mean, yeah, you can draw a connection there, but the Oblivion is FAR less personal than the Oathkeeper and its ties to Riku are much weaker than the Oathkeeper's are to Kairi.



AND DION. Ventus' Heart was sleeping within Roxas.

[Rubicante]

A part of Sora, yes. But as his Nobody, he only should possess Sora's shell. He has a heart, too, though. Ventus' heart. Ventus' heart sought shelter within Sora's heart because it was too weak to stay on its own. Naturally, that heart merged with Sora's to sustain health and continue existing, since Ven's heart had no darkness of its own. Back to my original point of it not being able to part from Sora unless Sora's heart split to two. Now, this raises another question. If infact, Ventus' heart does reside within Roxas, how does it subside within Roxas without shattering or fading away completely? Or how about another one; surely, Ventus' heart's Chain of Memories was intact. Why is Roxas NOT Ventus himself, then?

Imma just throw this out there....Kairi's heart was inside Sora too....might have done something to it maybe shrug. It's a long shot but with her being a princess of heart eh idk think it's possible it could have left a bond there that could have helped sustain Ven's heart

Also if everyone I knew kept pestering me about info on my game I'd make it out to be so convoluted too to get em to stfu and wait for the game to explain itself just saying >_____>

[Dion]

Imma just throw this out there....Kairi's heart was inside Sora too....might have done something to it maybe shrug. It's a long shot but with her being a princess of heart eh idk think it's possible it could have left a bond there that could have helped sustain Ven's heart

Kairi's heart was inside of Sora because he was the closest living thing to her in a world that was dying. Her body fades and surfaces in an another world. Nobodies were not planned at this point.

Neither was Ven's heart being within Sora.