14 replies to this topic

[Dexel Hydagara]

Yep. I'm opening this can of worms. On here, neither I or anyone else can argue without thinking or letting emotions in the way, and anyone who does, I promise I will get someone's fist to slam down on you like an angry Norse god.

 

Now, I personally have nothing against incest. There are biological factors against it, yes, but let us not mix that in with the other part of the issue; how the two (or more) people involved in the relationship feel. Obviously, social norms and what have you have been back and forth on this topic forever, though largely incest is frowned upon and treated with disgust. I simply wish to hear why people are against this "genre" (for lack of a better word) of relationship. If you feel them having kids is really necessary to mention, keep it separate. Biological and psychological do not always go hand-in-hand.

[Kingroy]

People should get to have sex with other people in consent.

 

Biological problems? Don't have kids. 

 

Unforseen Accident? You can stop that by not having sex, tying tubes, or vasectomies. 

 

It's gross to you that others are having sex with their family members?

 

It grosses me out that two men could be having sex.

 

You think sex is only between man and woman?

 

I'll build you a time machine to the past.

 

Believe a time machine isn't possible.

 

Then how do you not get that it's morally okay for relatives to have consensual sex?

[Valor]

You really shouldn't have sex with your close kin. It's common knowledge that it messes with the genes and can lead to a lot of bad time juju when it comes to having kids. That said, it's just strange on a societal level for two closely related people to be intimate with each other.

 

Maybe it stems from the whole diversifying the gene pool thing that is important to do. So maybe it's a biological disgust that has turned into a moral one.

 

In old days people would try to keep their bloodlines as pure as possible. People marrying their daughters and siblings becoming lovers.

 

Even two of the Lannisters from Game of Thrones are incestuous lovers because they felt they were supposed to be together by fate or something.

 

You can't not let emotion and morals get into the discussion because without morals and stuff there is no discussion. Without morals it's simply two people having sex, which usually isn't a bad thing in the strictest sense of the idea.

 

The fact that a moral issue is brought up and then we're told to keep emotions and morals out of the discussion is pretty stupid. I'm not super into fucking my own relatives because blood family should be unfuckable.

[Epic]

My morality, once again, is based on consent.

As long as two consenting adults are doing it, and they understand the risks, I don't see the problem.

[Dexel Hydagara]

You really shouldn't have sex with your close kin. It's common knowledge that it messes with the genes and can lead to a lot of bad time juju when it comes to having kids. That said, it's just strange on a societal level for two closely related people to be intimate with each other.

 

Maybe it stems from the whole diversifying the gene pool thing that is important to do. So maybe it's a biological disgust that has turned into a moral one.

 

In old days people would try to keep their bloodlines as pure as possible. People marrying their daughters and siblings becoming lovers.

 

Even two of the Lannisters from Game of Thrones are incestuous lovers because they felt they were supposed to be together by fate or something.

 

You can't not let emotion and morals get into the discussion because without morals and stuff there is no discussion. Without morals it's simply two people having sex, which usually isn't a bad thing in the strictest sense of the idea.

 

The fact that a moral issue is brought up and then we're told to keep emotions and morals out of the discussion is pretty stupid. I'm not super into fucking my own relatives because blood family should be unfuckable.

 

-x-

 

When I said "emotions", I simply meant we ain't here to fight. I'm not interested in a "wrong" or "right" answer, simply what peeps here think on their own about the issue, their reasoning, etc. If you're disgusted about it, fine. If you love the idea, okay. Just say why, exactly. I think everyone here knows the societal opinion, and I just feel it an infamia to have to stick to such a thing when independent thinking is possible.

 

If I wanted to know how the issue was treated in olden times or is presently treated, I'd find myself a merry flock of sheep to feign innocence in and quietly ask a question from.

Edited by Dexel, 04 April 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[Ralor]

This is a subject I'm conflicted on as well. What if you're related through marriage or were at one point? Blah. That aside, I've heard the "defects" argument is a crock, they'd already have the potential to have them anyway from at least one parent, it's just more slightly likely to occur if they both have the gene for it and it becomes an active trait. Like Sickle Cell. One person having the gene is fine. Both parents is potentially fatal. Most of the genes that would be refined in incest are harmless though, having to do with hair, eyes, skin, etc. It really isn't that big of a deal. Besides, incest is actually still fairly common in other countries, particularly in royalty.

[Griever]

K.

 

 

I'm going to lay this out straight. Val, I'm going to use your GoT example. It fucks the lines of brother and sister, the relationship line and ties between family, and keeping it appropriate without it being more on the side of possessive. It downright destroys a familial role in families. I'm going to get onto something really severe with this. For one wtf is wrong with you? for 2 I don't think you understand what it does to kids nowadays. Mainly what they view family as and how they raise kids is very VERY altered. It's not ok. It's really unnatural, it's really bad for mental reasons and for lots of biological reasons it's absolutely disgusting. If you look it up I think you will see what psychologists say happens in the family lines, their thoughts on sex, relationships and what the possible massive consequences it has on societal life, (don't take offense to this Dex but that is something you choose not to clearly have). So that doesn't mean anything to you. Or the mental effect it has on the ones involved when it comes to what sex is, what it means and what place it has in a relationship (something you obviously must not understand and yes I'm getting morally rude on this but I think it's silly for you to think ignoring morally arguments just as rude). And finally I think the most important part of it. Adults as EPIC stated he's ok with. 

 

 

 

Ok this comment makes my stomach boil. 

 

This comment makes me think of Game of Thrones.

 

This comment makes me bring up something I am ALMOST certain you are forgetting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

KIDS have sex too.

 

high schoolers. Middle schoolers, EVEN some as EARLY as elementary school. You are talking Incest as "ok" for "adults" As Epic says, but I'm sorry when you say it's "ok" anywhere across. No that ISN'T ok. Kids thinking having sex with their brother and sister are "ok" when parents freak out with their daughters accidently prego with their brother? Or what happens when parents discipline their kids as brother and sister not even REALIZE the "lover" aspect sex shares with children that age? How does this make ANY sense? Raising YOUR kids and TELLING them "hey it's ok to have sex with your brother and sister we are ok with everything in your head that will get all screwy. We are totally fine with your view on everything being VASTLY distorted. Why we are at it, do you want to have sex with your mom when you're 18? Hey what about your cousin after prom? Make sure you raise your kids to know when they raise theirs that they can have sex with them if they so chose and both agree and consent." 

 

 

K I'm done. 

[Dexel Hydagara]

It's always a given that kids have sex. Incest as an influence or not, it'll happen. There are consequences and downsides to everything. Now, I gave a general statement, true, but do not think me so dense as to think things crossing generations and when someone's, say, 14, is perfectly okay. It's not. Something like grandmother on grandchild or between two 13-year-olds is not something I'd advocate. Will it happen regardless? Yes. Same happens outside of incestuous relationships, though, which is why I did not address it. Kids are gonna be screwing other kids. What are you driving at, exactly? Incest not being a despised thing would suddenly lead to lots of brother-sister sex or some such?

 

As for distorting children's views...yeah, it's different from the norm, it's wacky, it's something they'll get picked on about. Know what, though? People get picked on for damn near anything these days, and I don't see how these views encourage them to be having sex willy-nilly. That's bad parenting if it does. See, a lot of these people are normal human beings like you and me, and many of them would see it just as much of a gross breach of responsibility to tell a kid that they're free to fuck whatever catches their eye at whatever age or stage of relationship. It makes me slightly disturbed that you would think anyone attracted to a family member is automatically some demented shell of a human, or something which you would see fit to label an animal. Or at least that that's the general tone you're giving.

 

Now, as to the family ties. Fine, you got me on not really being all that tight-knit with my family, so maybe my thinking is different. I'm not the only one, though. Not everyone in the world has a tight-knit family, Perhaps some don't care about severing the ties. It's somewhat on an individual basis there. If it doesn't screw with things, more power to them. It crosses on the lines...in all honesty, not my problem. It's their problem to deal with, but I won't compound it by saying they can't. Maybe they shouldn't, but what in hell do I know? What can I claim to know? Nothing. I'm not that person. I don't know how they work. If I was a therapist, it'd be a slightly different story, but I'm not.

Edited by Dexel, 04 April 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[Griever]

First off no, again just no. 

 

When you say incest and only say incest you are saying EVERYTHING. This includes all of the other wtf's that come with it. Secondly "it's wacky" don't even. "they'll just get picked on but who cares?" That's not the portion that is the big problem again things I'm not sure you comprehend as you CHOOSE to keep out of such societal/social roles and practices we have entirely. There is a REASON condoms are provided to kids when they need them. The second you say it's ok for an adult you are over all saying it's ok for kids as well. Birth control is ok for teens because hey get it or not your parents aren't going to say "go ahead and have sex." That means nothing to LITTLE when society blasts it every second in their media. Kids have sex REGARDLESS of what parents say. When you decide Incest is ok on an adult role you are saying it's ok for kids.

 

It is very disgusting and I don't see it as "ok" like you do. It's not ok ignoring fucked up views that adults can do it *idgaf what they want to do as disgusting as the taste it gives me.* Kids are the more important part. You can't tell a child, It's ok if me and my sister have sex, you just can't with yours. Do you NOT mock the things your parents say and say whatever? Do you NOT realize teenagers and children do this in most of their waking life? The sheer amount of psychological damage it does on a child that does have sex with a sibling or a cousin is ridiculous. Let me explain some ramifications this will have cus believe it or not, your diving into a rape situation, age of consent, and several real time arguments in the united states at the same time. So believe it or not you are engrossing ALL of these things at the exact same time.

 

 

 

Let me go into a small tidbit on rape between family members. Oh wait, that's all that needs to be said. What happens to those who've had sex with their siblings or with their father/mother. Is absolutely messed up. Their thought process on how a NORMAL HEALTHY family is SUPPOSED to work is VASTLY altered. Not in a brush off ok way like you seem to think. As you bring the conversation up, you deal with kids who unfortunately have to go through therapy to get someone to tell them, "don't raise your kids like that, and it's not your fault, and that's not how a family is supposed to work, that's not correct and that's not your fault they breached the line between brother and sister or mother and son." The fact that a family member would have the "power" of incest is "ok" would strip away a very strong deterrent to keep people from making that step. Granted, their moral compass is more fucked up already, but the fact as Iggy says "the victim is too scared to say things or they think it's ok" would be FAR more relevant that these people WILL go unnoticed, as society SAYS incest is ok, these kids will indeed have less power to fight against such a thing. The psychological power it has over a child is something you do not understand. I adore how you bring this topic up and says "who cares?" and then say "well It crosses on the lines...in all honesty, not my problem. It's their problem to deal with,"

 

Just no. Yeah it IS there problem to deal with and ISN'T yours which is why incest being ok in your thought is JUST as stupid as that last comment is. You don't care about how people view another, you also don't care on the familial shit that would come with it as you have no family ties you just stated. You obviously have no idea what it would do to someone psychologically or the fact that more damaging shit would come with it. Consent is ALREADY a big issue in america and kids (thanks to Iggy for informing me) aren't exactly being taught on consent... Even the sex ed classes I KNOW didn't teach that stuff until late sophomore year. This brings up yet another thing, how do you teach incest as ok to kids? You have to teach it to them. You can't NOT teach it to them. You have to tell them it's ok to do so, you have to explain all of it. You also have to tell them some of them who by now may have already been in sexual relations with their uncles and brothers, and some of these likely rape victims in a "horny heat of the moment I can just get off on my son, daughter, niece etc. and dress it up to make it ok since hey it IS ok to be incestuous and it's ok if I do it, cus parents NEVER bend rules EVER or ignore SOME things if THEY think it's ok right?" You know if I am NOT mistaken weren't some of the daughters of fathers OBLIGATED and felt TRAPPED to be FORCED in a sexual relationship under the guise incest was ok? I can Guarantee you some of these daughters and sons felt for a fact trapped that they had to. With the power parents have in THAT regards, (making up for the power they do NOT have in terms of hypocritical comments and media censoring) is in fact STRONGER than a rapist has with a victim. And I'm pretty sure the royalty route has the guise of trapping these same individuals in this situation, I can mostly guarantee it's with parent's "keep the royal blood in the family bla bla bla" the only reason why they think it's OK. I am almost, mostly certain that if their parents were NOT feeding them that fucked up shit they wouldn't be wedding their cousins. Arranged marriages to me are almost as bad as forced relationship and to me are on the borders of "ok" rape the minute the choice seems like no choice and they feel they HAVE to consent, or "forced" to.

 

 

 

 

This next bit is downright rude, forgive me on that front, but I'm still going to say it.

 

Normal human being please don't count me in with your idea of "normal" I take that absolutely offensively, extremely. Absolutely offensively. I don't think there are enough people in the U.S.A that wake up with the idea that "man I'm horny, I want to have sex with my sister... yeah, I'll schedule that in at 6pm after dinner." The fact you don't want to associate with humanity like I do and obviously have a better grasp on societal whatsits and even if I don't have familial ties (which obviously you have 0 idea what family ties means when it comes to family roles, bonds and how family IS supposed to be viewed as healthy), I could easily give you real life examples. "We" are not the same in how we "see" things as "normal." Wacky isn't close to accurate how your take of the consequences are or how people view it. So please, do not place me and you in the same thought process like that again, yes rude as that is I don't like it, and I request you never do it again. I actually love my morals and views, and I definitely don't share the same normal as you do.

Edited by Griever, 04 April 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Kingroy]

I'm sorry if I didn't get the gist of the arguments against why it wouldn't be cool to say incest relationships, sexs or no sexs, would be okay but I find something ironically disturbing here.

 

Okay everyone knows I think in absolutes. Black and white? I guess but I can't help but think that it's silly to make laws and shame people for actually dating their cousins or sisters or mother or whatever. 

 

Essentially, that's what it seems like some of you guys are/were saying. 

 

I'm going to be completely honest here, this seems like how homosexual and other sexual peeps were treated and in fact are still treated. What will a child's mother say when she realizes her daughter is dating a girl? Other kids will pick on her. It's not right to tell her that as a child, it's okay to like other girls. Don't forget the fact that, that means that might mean there is two girls who will possibly not get preggers naturally(Forgive me, I'm cringing at the use of "naturally" as well) or preggers at all, thus making it harmful to humanity as the procreation rate is lessened by these two individuals. Oh and if she has a child, be it adoption or birth, with this other girl, it'll be bad for their offspring because they'll have to deal with not having a traditional family. It's madness. 

 

I'm not going to kick it and oversimplify shit. Blood siblings making a child could be bad for the child only for biological reasons. That's my sole reason to argue against it. But you know what? We've come far in technology and society that surrogate mothers, adoption, and other methods could be used instead of "normal" biological procreation.

 

I find this personally offensive as fuck. Why? Not because I'd like to bang my sisters or mom or aunts or cousins, but because I once thought the same thing about homosexual, and other non-traditional sexual relationships until I was corrected. So. What. You can romantically love anybody as long as they're not related to you in blood? 

 

And for whatever reason you brought in parents and children and rape and molestation, that could simply be solved by the consent law we have here in the U.S of A. 

 

Again. Maybe I understood wrong. Not the first time for this to happen but I think I read right...

[Griever]

"And for whatever reason you brought in parents and children and rape and molestation, that could simply be solved by the consent law we have here in the U.S of A."

 

 

I'm going to assume you have 0 idea on the psychological impact this has on a person consentwise and how our consent law doesn't reach peoples heads as is, you should listen to Iggy's arguments about consent sometime. I'll also assume you have 0 idea the impact rape and molestation has on a child of the same family. I'll chalk this up to simple ignorance, you don't know. That's fine you just don't know. Most victims of abuse under the age of 18 were sexually abused by family members. I think you guys are missing the entire can of worms that opens by saying "incest is ok" I am almost 100% sure you are downplaying, ignoring, or just don't CARE what this could do to potential victims psychologically. It's easy to say "this is what they can do" and not understand anything whatsoever from the victim's view living with/around someone who is supposed to be family. Whatever the statistics are, they would be much higher. Whatever the number IS right now there would INDEFINITELY be more. The "silent" victims that have a hard time speaking out would be increased as well. 

 

All the other arguments I made are being entirely looked over, I assume that it's because the understanding isn't there, or the compassion or comprehension just isn't. I'm not calling you by any means stupid or dense, but I WILL say you are missing what happens in OTHER countries as a result of this and what WOULD be GROSSLY abused in the USA with the consent law that is already glanced over and strung through the mud as it is.

 

let me put it this way. I do not care about homosexuality and that has 0 place in an argument revolving around the impact against a traditional family. There is still a parent unit, there is still a family unit. When brothers and sisters start fucking the lines and roles of a family are abused. The concept on how to have a family and respect certain aspects to your upcoming family you create is absolutely blurred and destroyed. "We are a little different because we are brother and sister." That doesn't just effect what the traditional family is, that effects the way your kids SEE relationships entirely. And the idea "they will make fun of them." I've said this before the amount of make fun isn't nearly how light you make it seem, nor is that the main issue.  Kids are irresponsible. Teenagers have raging hormones, do you know how much harder you make it for someone to ignore the fact they can have sex with their sibling by saying it's ok? Do you know how much EASIER having sex in availability there would be? Can I begin to talk about the more "mistakes" that would arise from a situation where their mindset would be, I can just fuck my sister, sure she's a year younger, if I tell her it's for fun she'll think it's a game.

 

News flash this shit already happens more than I know you realize. Under the guise that it's actually OK the victim will be silent about it, not even realizing what the hell just happened. Did you ALSO know that family members coerced into sex by other family members will have an attachment to their abuser? Take classic african american broken home, abusive father, submissive mother. Pretty sure we've seen enough movies to realize she should just get the fuck out. What you guys DON'T seem to understand it's a psychological powerplay that is VERY effective and ISN'T something you can brush off as stupidity simply because you don't understand it, you need to realize it is VERY real and it is a form of mental, social and emotional abuse. Imagine that powerplay on a family member. Most cases concerning family already go unreported. There would be even more, they wouldn't realize how taken advantage of they were, and then they would be "giving" it up like they do in other countries and feel like they can't fight. Again I chalk most of this up to just not knowing. 

 

So right now you have a victim. You have someone bound sexual (the power of the ejaculation is VERY strong psychologically and biologically) The fact it feels good, and the fact it does a bunch of stuff chemically makes this victim not realizing they ARE a victim attached to their abuser in a very VERY unhealthy situation. You have them as a family member, Incest is OK, consent laws would get pooped on even more, and this person is living with them EVERY day. and the ONLY thing that's a little off is the aging between them. Another news flash, how many kids do you think even give a shit about the age of consent? You'd be surprised how many young adults don't give a rats ass, and how many teenagers REALLY don't care. Taking away the stigma of incest creates more problems I think you guys are missing. Kids will emulate adults. Why do kids have sex so much now than they did before? Well look at how ok it is in the media now than it was before. Look at how parents/adults make little to no hiding the fact of what they want. You say incest is ok for grown adults, kids, young adults won't give a rats ass, like they give one about smoking cigarettes, drinking, weed, drugs. This is all coming from the adults. We show it to them in media, bad parenting and censoring (which is NEARLY impossible for a Parent to adequately do without homeschooling their child or unless they are in a more rural setting, cus everyone knows that one kid is the only reason why you know what drugs are in the first place if you never knew about them before, right? One bad apple ruins the bunch). Kids feel the rights of the adults, that's just the way it is. You'll have way more young offenders than you did before, many offenders you won't even realize they are, and they could be much MUCH more dangerous with a lot more freedom, which is NOT ok. While you have an enabler victim feeling trapped or that this is how it's supposed to be, or for the lucky ones, years and years of counseling of them being repaired on how a family is SUPPOSED to work and how they can start to break their own victimization cycle they unfortunately were trapped in due to a SINGLE thing being changed as ok. And to not assert themselves on their family members like it was done to them. 

 

Yes don't act out what was done to you for several years. I think everyone knows most people who get in trouble for it, it was ALL they knew. And they were raped by a family member under the guise that it was ok. I think people seem to ignore the fact that they were victims too, and their views of sex was VASTLY altered because the simple broach a family member did to them and now they have to go through a repair cycle of what's been done to them, fixing their moral compass that this family member fucked up, as well as teaching them what sexual relationships should be like, what family concepts and BOUNDARIES matter and how much they matter, as well as telling them in the most constructive way, "What they did was wrong, and it played a very VERY big factor in why you did the same thing, but what you did is not acceptable either, even if you didn't know any better because of your own experience. I have to teach you why and how to be healthy again, and repair all the damage done to you and prepare you for a society that will loathe you." And don't get me started even more on the unfortunate silent victims who like the ones bound for a marriage they don't want in OTHER COUNTRIES WITHOUT A CHOICE OF THEIR OWN, will be bound sexually in much the same way and feel immensely incapable.

[Kingroy]

So basically. The TL;DR version of this is that it will get abused by the bad people of the world.

 

That's an oversimplification of it, but I'm not going to sit right here and write an essay on it. 

 

Simply put. Yes. People can abuse this but what can you do? Continue to tread on this unfair stigma by saying "It'll break traditional families". No. You can fight against the abuse.

 

Also...I can't even see how you can say that homosexuality doesn't belong in this convo about traditional family roles. >_> People nowadays still feel like two homosexual parents can't raise a child, it's just not that many people out there as it once was because people began to realize how wrong it is to force people into your beliefs. 

 

Just like you have said. People rape and molest their relatives already despite their being laws against incest in several states. These same people didn't care before and won't care when it's accepted. They'll try to make an excuse for their molestation and rape but THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE THAT. Shits not gonna change drastically in that department if incest becomes more accepted. There will probably be an increase, but rape and molestation needs to be fought, not incestual relations. 

 

Bleh. This is all ironic and twisted. 

Edited by Kingroy, 05 April 2013 - 06:07 PM.

[Secret Igshar]

I found this nice article, and I admit to skipping the thread once it got to the long-ass posts since I can anticipate it being "it's just wrong" and "but idk if it is just wrong" being thrown back and forth. This is a rather in-depth analysis of the issue, and a few of the comments raise some interesting points that I'll bring up here.

 

http://bigthink.com/...is-incest-wrong

 

Basically, the article concludes that no, incest (in general) is not morally reprehensible, especially not to the extent that those who engage in it should become pariahs.

 

In the comments, other points are brought up which were not mentioned in the article.

 

Primary among them is the idea of the home being a "safe space" wherein parents are not allowed to sexually coerce children into doing things against their will or pushing them into sexuality before they are mentally/physically prepared for such things.

(a few quotes in the spoiler)

Spoiler

"I think the biggest problem is that an acceptance of incest weakens a child's safety net.  Sexual attraction can exist between or toward siblings, children, parents--we are sexual beings, and the barrier of "you just don't, under any circumstances" may be   inconvenient to adult  siblings attracted to each other, but protects children from adults or older children who can abuse them, or encourage them to premature sexual behavior. The home should be a place of safety--where we can sleep, bathe and dress without wondering if the person in the next room is going to make a move on us.   Not being able to have sex with someone is never more than frustrating. But being pressured into having sex, or having it before emotionally ready, or confusing the gratitude of a child for a parent or relative's protection with sexual attraction...is potentially devastating.  Far, far more evil could arise from "norming" incest than any good that could ever come of it."

 

"you are the only person posting that sees through this debate. not knowing when this actually began or where they got the idea that it was okay makes me want more info than is available. as a counselor, i have worked w/ many who have had difficulty breaking away from incestuous families due to the fact that it was "normalized". seems like some have their own agenda to try and make others think incest is "ok". you are right on target w/ the "home should be a place of safety" factor. that is a recurring theme when talking w/ victims of incestuous families. thank you for seeing this for what it truly appears to be."

 

This. Makes. Me. Angry. Livid. These sorts of arguments devalue the logic centers of the brain. They devolve humans into nothing more than beasts - sexual beasts at that - who want nothing more than to ravage any flesh (sexually) that they can get their hands on. It's the same sort of backhanded assaults leveled against men by way of victim blaming in rape cases. Saying "she was asking for it" or "he couldn't help himself, since she was dressed that way" says that the default state of the man is sexual attraction and bestial urges.

 

These quoted arguments flip that around and say that, if it were not taboo, children would be subject to sexual experimentation by their parents on a regular basis. That the only thing standing between a father and his supple teenage daughter is a social taboo. And that's fucking bullshit. It's reminiscent of people who balk at Atheists and wonder "If you don't have the ten commandments guiding you, how do you know that it's wrong to kill!?" and it's a really ridiculous debate tactic that gets me angry due to how ignorant it is of the actual issues involved and how ignorant it makes the speaker seem as to just how messed up their head must be to the point that the only thing stopping you from murder is a law.

 

What should stop you - end of the day - is either:

1. your own feelings on the issue (I, personally, think incest is gross and it's not something I would go for)

2. the lack of consent and lack of ability to consent of the targeted child

3. anything else which would normally stop you from pursuing a potential intimate partner sexually (such as disinterest on their part)

 

NONE OF THOSE are dependent upon laws.

 

 

 

Bottom line / my own personal conclusion after a bit of research and reading on the topic:

I can see no good reason to say that it is blanket wrong for two consenting adults to engage in an incestuous relationship. None.

 

"good" is bolded for a reason; "it's wrong" or "it's illegal" are both not good reasons if you want to have an intelligent conversation on this topic.

[Griever]

The only thing I won't argue about with you Roy is the love each other part. I don't argue against love, but incest IS the topic love and incest are not the same like sex and love aren't. I made a little mishap in MY idea of a traditional family, so I'll apologize for that comment. It ISN'T traditional family for homosexuals, however in my opinion, there is still 2 parents, they are STILL appropriate in how they show their love and one day they will explain sex to their kid and how they can love whoever as long as they love isn't always a concept even adults understand. I 100% completely see where you are going, don't think I don't. But again, I don't think it's something that kids should be allowed to do, and by showing it to them as ok in the adult world just the problems it would have within growing families.

 

Morally it's messed up. Biologically I won't even, it's the psychological impact it has on every and ALL relationships in a society that already has no "solid" grounding on what a "real relationship" is supposed to be. WITH broken families it'll be MUCH more of a problem, and there are a lot of broken families, and it's difficult for those to make it out halfway broken let alone just make it out. Seeing your sister as a potential lover, just blech. It's disgusting to me for just THAT but adding society as it is RIGHT now, the problems that would come with it imo seem absolutely real and absolutely not ok. We have rules that are already broken and some rules should't EVER be taken away. Imagine stealing, rape, or murder taken away? I am more then sure at LEAST 1 person in this thread likely 2-3 have thought about hurting someone before and wishing they'd disappear. Like I KNOW everyone in this thread have thought of "man I would totally just take that, it's so cool." I feel people need to understand the law IS a deterrent and has SAFELY protected QUITE a few people just for being there. Potential rapists are not so simply because of the law, that needs to be recognized :|

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also the first comment on that page Iggy posted is the main thing I'm arguing.

Edited by Griever, 05 April 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Kingroy]

Okay so it's as I thought. You feel that society isn't ready. I'll agree that society might not be ready but at the same time I do not feel that we should block it. Take baby steps? Sure. I'll agree with that but I couldn't take it just being taboo. Society has developed extremely slower than the tools we use to advance it...if that makes sense. It could be hundreds, if not more, years before the major issues that we're worried about, such as the rape and "consent" issues, have been somewhat fixed.

 

Basically we still gotta do something even if society isn't ready, and probably won't be for a long time.