So many quotes. x-x
Then don't use Haste with 120 MP and Aspira backup.
You just don't understand efficiency. If you have overflow when casting an mp recovery spill, you're doing it wrong. So many wasted mpees! Shame on you, leaving them on the ground for anyone to pick up!
Yes it will, since every set I ran when testing Chapter 3 had no more than 77 MP. This is taking into account new equipments. People bitched about high MP on equips, so I have been lowering it. :>
If nothing else, at least I've gotten through to you on this front.
Let's also take into account what Haste is going to do for you for that 38 MP spent. It will give either you or your Spirit an extra turn for the next good long while. As of current, the spell lasts 20 turns. Quite a nice amount of time. I may increase that turn count before giving the spell to stores, since (as I have said) we haven't done testing with it yet. If anything, I think the turns or amount boosted would be the main (if not only) issues. I do not foresee the MP aspect being much of a problem at all, especially when you take into account the fact that throwing up the spell gifts you a second turn. If it is not gifting you with a second turn, you're probably using it wrong. Fighting with two turns gives everyone MORE than enough time to do whatever the balls they want to.
If I'm running a haste build with 120 mp, it will likely be my spirit that gets the extra turn, not me. So I don't consider the, "you have more turns to restore mp," argument very valid, unless spirits get some nifty spells that benefit the team.
Also, you act like 20 turns is an eternity, but that really depends on how many monsters you're doubling, no? It would be nicer if you could find some way to quantify turns into rounds, but that's not the point. If you cast haste on an ally, the time you have to restore your mp before you must recast it is quite variable.
That's not even remotely fair. Mages have access to 75 dex techs to cast their spells. Those are called 100%, sure-hit techs to ensure the activation of the Augment attached to your weapon. Losing 3 out of your 5 dex would not hinder you in any way of connected. Even with a 50% dex cut (which would be outrageously drastic to a physical attacker) if I then extended it to work for all techs activated as well, your dex would still be 40. That's enough to hit 100% on 25 eva. Let me be the first to tell you that, out of the 80-ish? monsters in Chapter 4, exactly 0 of them have 25 eva or greater.
While the general idea of losing dex to boost speed sounds like a brilliant one, realize that a mage can restore his/her MP back to full. A physical attacker CANNOT restore his/her dex back to full for the duration of the haste spell. It is in no way MORE balanced by cutting the player's dex.
Lols, nice way to completely miss the point. Yes, a mage can hit anything with their dex tech. Hitting something and casting an enchant on it is not quite the same thing, though. I'm not quite sure why you completely ignored the fact that the mage just lost 50% of their total mp. Let's hope they had at least 53 mp. See how that works? The loss of dex for a mage or the loss of mp for a warrior is meant to be a minor hindrance, not the primary one.
Again, you (and Val) seem to have extrapolated my suggestion to a ridiculous extreme. I realize 50% is a giant dex cut. Thanks for explaining that. Derp.
A 15% or even 20% dex cut, however, is not.
If you run 30 dex (which sounds like a shipton), that's a loss of five to six dex for double turns. Such a bad trade. If only there was some way to gain dex every time you atta- Oh wait. Techniques.
For the sake of the arguement, let's go with the 15% debuff. Primary -ra's are +4. Depending on when the debuff is applied, we have two possibilities. 15% of 30 is 4.5. Rounding up, that gives us 5. You're now at 25 base. The tech now takes effect boosting the player's dex to 29. Exchanging one dex for double turns. Yea, that is so unbalanced. The debuff % might need to be bumped up. As for the other possibility, 30+4 is 34. 15% of 34 is 5.1. Assuming you round down, we're back at 29, again. Need even more dex to go with your double turns? Try a Mockingjay enchanted with dodge break and use target.
So if you want to argue that one dex is an omfgamechanger, be my guest. The point of all of this was that show that there is a happy median between the two. You just need to find it, and I will continue to argue until you do so.
I don't think that was even said. The argument was that, if 120 MP were an intelligent amount of MP to ever be running, you would be able to heal back 75%+ of it with a single spell. Since you know 60 is 75%+ of 75.
I just assumed Val was really bad at math?
This one took too much reading between the lines for me to get. My bad.
And if you're this upset about 50% mp spells, I can't wait to see your reaction to the 60 and 75% spells.
Time to go str and/or base mp. Stupid mp floors, amirite?
Cutting Dex to boost Speed is really stupid and not a fair trade off at all.
Spoken like a true strength user. Lols.
Cutting 13 MP off of my 25 with a single spell is equivalent to you using up 38 MP with a single cast of Haste. We can both heal it back with a single action, but you have to be really to use it so you don't screw yourself into a corner.
To counter what you said about your two attacks until you must aspira, you can caste chakra only twice at 12 MP before you're totally out of MP, and then it takes 2 (3?) Manafonts before you're back to full MP. As an attacker, I'm likely casting haste on myself and using us a good chunk of those turns (thinking about the turn rotation) healing my MP back to full before I start attacking in earnest because I'll need the MP in case I get in trouble. As an attacker you don't have to ever find yourself low in HP and low in MP. That's called a loss.
13 MP out of 25 is very significant, and even higher is more significant in changing up a battle's flow if I wanted to use haste. Mages can use it much more easily and effectively, as you've demonstrated already. I think it's pretty fair.
Most of your concerns are adressed in my replies to Iggy, but he's my two cents, just for you.
You seem to have an mp problem. Have you tried applying more than base
mp? No? Okay, well, first try that.
Still having a problem? Consider one of the two following suggestions if your chapter two
mp recovery tech just isn't cutting it when you're trying to cast haste, enchants, and healing spells:
1) Add three mag and cast one aspil. 20 net mp get!
2) Add zero mag and cast one aspira. 30 net mp get!
But joking aside, I never
said that the mp loss is insignificant for a warrior. A 50% loss is too major for either
class. That's why it needs to be lowered and balanced with a dex debuff. Possibly 25% for both. Or some other random number. I'm not the number guy.
Edited by Artemis, 23 April 2012 - 04:19 AM.